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On this episode, I am thrilled to welcome Dr. Joel Small. Dr. Small is an endodontist, a speaker, author and an entrepreneur. With over 36 years of experience in endodontics, Dr. Small has heavily contributed to his specialty, from cofounding of the North Texas Endodontic Associates in Plano, Texas, to serving the American Associates of Endodontics as a member of numerous committees and one of their national spokespersons. He is also a past president of the SW Society of Endodontics and still speaks nationally on topics of leadership, practice management and specialty practice transitions.<\/p>\n
Dr. Small joins me today to talk about his newest book, Face to Face: A Leadership Guide for Health Professionals and Entrepreneurs. <\/em>Dr. Small\u00a0shares how he has molded his leadership practices from some of both our favorite speakers, authors and coaches, and how he completely revamped his own private practice. Dr. Small\u00a0brings a refreshing and inspirational look at the changes you can make that will improve not only your life, but your practice, your patients and your staff. Hit play below to start listening.<\/p>\n Welcome to Practicing with the Masters<\/em> for dentists with your host, Dr. Allison Watts. Allison believes that there are four pillars for a successful, fulfilling dental practice: clear leadership, sound business principles, well-developed communication skills, and clinical excellence. Allison enjoys helping dentists and teams excel in all of these areas. Each episode she brings you an inspiring conversation with another leading expert. If you desire to learn and grow and in the process take your practice to the next level, then this is the show for you. Now, here\u2019s your host, Dr. Allison Watts.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Welcome to Practicing with the Masters<\/em> podcast. I\u2019m your host, Allison Watts, and I\u2019m dedicated to bringing you masters in the field of dentistry, leadership, and practice management to help you have a more fulfilling and successful practice and life.<\/p>\n For those of you that don\u2019t know Joel, I met him years ago, but I actually didn\u2019t know he taught leadership until I had a man email me, oh, I’d say several weeks ago now. He was talking to me about leadership and how many courses he\u2019d been to and that one of the best lectures he\u2019d been to was Dr. Joel Small. I just thought, \u201cOh my gosh, I didn\u2019t even know that you were doing that.\u201d We used to be in a study club together.<\/p>\n Joel is a fantastic endodontist. I get a feeling that you have a pretty neat practice from reading your book, Joel. I know you’re an endodontist, a speaker, a writer, and an entrepreneur. You\u2019re a cofounder of the North Texas Endodontic Associates in Plano, Texas. And that you have 30+ years as an endodontist. How many years have you been in practice, Joel?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I\u2019m in my 36th<\/sup> year.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay. All of those have been in private practice?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 They have. That\u2019s correct.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay. You have your post graduate training in endodontics at University of Texas Dental Branch in Houston. Received your master of business administration degree\u2014wow, that was brilliant\u2014with an emphasis in healthcare management from Texas Tech University in Lubbock.<\/p>\n Throughout your career, you\u2019ve remained committed to your profession. He has served the American Association of Endodontists as a member of numerous committees, including his service as a trustee of the research and education foundation. He\u2019s also served the AAE as one of their national spokespersons. He\u2019s past president of the Southwest Society of Endodontists.<\/p>\n He speaks nationally on topics of leadership, practice management, and specialty practice transition. He and his partners in North Texas Endodontics Associates have published numerous clinical research articles in various general and specialty dental journals throughout the United States and abroad.<\/p>\n He is the co-owner also of Phase II Associates, which is a dental practice brokerage firm in Dallas, Texas, that deals exclusively\u2014which I just learned it\u2019s not exclusive anymore\u2014but he has been doing exclusively practice transitions for specialists.<\/p>\n Most recently, Dr. Small has written a newly released book, Face to Face: A Leadership Guide for Health Care Professionals and Entrepreneurs<\/em>. I just learned that you are expanding your brokerage firm to start helping general dentists but only in the Dallas area. Is that what you said?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, north Texas, we\u2019ll be throughout north Texas.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, you have a friend of mine, going to join you doing that. That\u2019s great.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Good. We\u2019re very excited to have Lynne on board. That\u2019s wonderful. She\u2019s a wonderful person.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 She is. So we\u2019re so excited to have you here, Joel. I’ve respected you for a long time. I appreciate you spending your evening with us. I just wanted to start, I read your whole book and I really enjoyed it.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Thank you.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 If you could just maybe start by I think most of the book is centered around what we would call values-based leadership or the values-based practice. Can you tell us about that style of practice versus the other style of practice that you mention in there is results-based?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right, right.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And the difference between those two? And how we get to a values-based practice?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, I\u2019d love to\u2014by the way\u2014anybody that wants to ask questions, please feel free. I was saying before most of you got on that it\u2019s always a little bit intimidating doing a phone lecture because you can\u2019t see your audience, you can\u2019t look them in the eyes. You don\u2019t know if you’re connecting with them. So if there\u2019s anything that I\u2019m saying that you need further confirmation or explanation of, please feel free to chime in.<\/p>\n Allison, I\u2019m going to back up just a little bit from where you wanted to start and say that I\u2019m living proof that people can change because everything I write in my book and everything I talk about I learned because I did it wrong initially and I learned how to do it right eventually.<\/p>\n So please understand that I\u2019m not here to lecture to anybody, I\u2019m here to share information and let you know how my life was transformed through values-based leadership and how it\u2019s transformed my practice. That\u2019s not to say I\u2019m an expert because I don\u2019t think there\u2019s anybody that\u2019s in the field that\u2019s a true expert in leadership because there\u2019s so many facets of it.<\/p>\n After 27 years of endodontic practice, I finally went back to school, which is something I’d always wanted to do. I got my MBA at Texas Tech University. Among all the different topics that we discussed was this section on leadership. I became so mesmerized by the topic because in studying leadership, I saw why things I did in the past didn\u2019t work and why certain things did work.<\/p>\n I started to develop a crystal clear view of how we can change and transform our practices through values-based leadership. You mentioned results-based. Results-based leadership has nothing to do with transformation. It\u2019s a transactional relationship. There\u2019s a difference between transformation and transaction. Transaction is a quid pro quo which the Pankey people understand very well because I think that\u2019s in your motto. But quid pro quo is basically tit for tat. You do something for me, I do something for you.<\/p>\n So in essence, in a practice, if you have a results-based practice, you have a quid pro quo or transactional-based business in which people work for a salary. If they don\u2019t work, they don\u2019t get paid. If they don\u2019t get paid, they don\u2019t work. In a transformational relationship, everybody benefits. Everybody is made better as a result of the synergy of the group.<\/p>\n Unfortunately, and I say this because I experience the same thing, dentists do not understand leadership. It\u2019s not our fault. It\u2019s that we\u2019ve never had training in it. We\u2019ve never had the opportunity to study leadership and to appreciate it.<\/p>\n Understand that leadership is now a 12 billion dollar a year industry in the United States and growing rapidly every year. It is the single largest expenditure of corporations in the United States for staff training, is in leadership. So there\u2019s something that business understands that dentistry is just now starting to see. It\u2019s very significant. Anyway, that\u2019s the differences between those two types of cultures.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I\u2019m curious\u2026<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Go ahead.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I\u2019m curious if you have a thought about, I\u2019ve kind of come to see and I know that Mac and I were going to try to get Brian DesRoches to come down and do a thing. I know you know Brian but I remember Mac saying, he said, \u201cWhen I am having a clinical thing, a clinical meeting, or course, or something, seminar. I can send out, let\u2019s say I send out 500 invitations and I\u2019ll end up with 50 people in the class.\u201d<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u201cWhen I\u2019m having something about leadership or soft skills or something that\u2019s not clinical, I have to send out say 5,000.\u201d It was a lot more things he had to send out to get the same amount of people because percentage-wise there aren\u2019t as many people that are interested in these skills. Why do we as dentists think we can just\u2014I mean, I did it too when I first came out. I just thought that if I just build it they will come. If I do great clinical dentistry I\u2019ll be successful.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Sure, and that\u2019s a very excellent question. I wrote about this in my book. This is what I believe anyway. Whether you believe it or not, listening, I\u2019d be interested in your comments.<\/p>\n I truly think that dentists are systems-based people. What did all of you do that are dentists when you got out of school and you started your practice? You called people up and you said, okay, I need to know what do I do here, what do I do there. Or you called a consultant that came in and they setup systems for you. So you manage systems. We become very adept at managing systems in our business.<\/p>\n Then the consultants that we hired, and I hope there\u2019s no consultants on the call here because what I\u2019m going to say, I\u2019m going to temper it in just a minute, but consultants basically teach management and managing systems and tell you you’re leading your practice when nothing could be further from the truth. The fact of the matter is that management and leadership are very unique skills, almost exclusive as far as the skillsets required to become a manager versus a leader.<\/p>\n We think we\u2019re leading because we\u2019re managing our systems. You know, we\u2019re managing accounts receivable, we\u2019re managing this system, we\u2019re managing that system. But we\u2019re not letting the people underneath us do the work. We\u2019re managing it for them. If you read the book called E-Myth<\/em>, it\u2019s written by Michael Gerber, has anybody on the call read that book?<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I have.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 They can\u2019t\u2014unless they raise their hand. Y\u2019all could raise your hand if you\u2019ve read it.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well in the E-Myth<\/em> he makes a very good point, he talks about entrepreneurism and that\u2019s really what we are, entrepreneurs. We are small businesses. We are small service-oriented businesses and we\u2019re entrepreneurs.<\/p>\n An entrepreneur many times is a technician that doesn\u2019t have entrepreneurial skills. What that person does is they start to acquire all these systems: accounts receivable, accounts payable, marketing, scheduling, everything else. But they don\u2019t have the people underneath and they haven\u2019t developed the people underneath them to run the systems.<\/p>\n So basically what you’re doing is you’re juggling all these balls in the air. The more you add to it, the more balls you’re juggling in the air. Then eventually, one of those balls is going to start to fall and the whole thing starts to crumble.<\/p>\n There\u2019s a point in every practice, in every business, where you realize something\u2019s not right. I\u2019m doing too much. I\u2019m burning out. We\u2019re not being as productive as we can be. I need some help. So then is when a lot of people call in the consultants and honestly, I don\u2019t think they’re a huge help to us because they’re still teaching us to manage a system.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, that\u2019s been my experience as well. I think some of the consultants now are starting to talk a little more about leadership. But I know back when I first started, I didn\u2019t get much of that. I agree. I’ve never heard that point made, that\u2019s great. I think that\u2019s right. That was my experience as well.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n Allison: \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I felt like I needed to have all my systems in place. I would go, I don’t know where I went, to get all those things. But I needed them all written out and I needed to tell everybody what they were supposed to do. [Laughs]<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Instead of empowering them to\u2026<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 There\u2019s a great book that just came out by the way. If you all want to write it down, it\u2019s called Multipliers<\/em>. I think the author\u2019s name is Liz Wiseman.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 In the book, she talks about leadership. Leaders should become multipliers. What they do is they multiply the knowledge and the skill of their business. As opposed to someone in the book that they refer to as a diminisher, which is somebody that diminishes the knowledge and the skill of the business. Some of the issues we\u2019re going to talk about tonight directly impact whether you become a diminisher or a multiplier.<\/p>\n A multiplier has a culture that\u2019s very collaborative. It\u2019s a different type of culture. Whereas a diminisher is a micromanager and is overseeing everything and not allowing their people to stretch their knowledge. In fact, studies will show that diminishers are only getting 20 to 25 percent of their people\u2019s potential. Now imagine if you were a diminisher you could become a multiplier and you can go from 25 percent to say 90 percent of your staff\u2019s capability. What that would mean to you? What would that mean to\u2026<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh my goodness.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I know. What would that mean to you as far as not having to micromanage everything? To have people underneath you that are not only committed to your culture, they’re very skilled, they know what to do on their own. It allows you to move beyond the management of people to the management of process, which is a much more creative mindset for the business owner or the practice owner. Then you get to do the creative things.<\/p>\n But how can you do creative things when you’re constantly being pulled down in the muck and the mire by issues like staff tardiness, poor attitudes, people not showing up on time. Those are the kind of things that keep you from becoming that multiplier, becoming the kind of leader you need to be.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah. So let\u2019s talk about that. Those are real things that we deal with, the tardiness and all that. Are you saying that having this type of practice, which we\u2019ll get into here, right? Because we\u2019re going to talk about the values-based practice and you’re saying that that becoming a multiplier and having a values-based practice basically gets rid of that?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think that in order to be a multiplier, you have to identify your values.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That was one thing I know we were going to talk about, we call the core ideology, which is your purpose and your values. Those two things together become your anchor. Your core ideology, which is your purpose and your values, they’re vital reference points for us as human beings and as professionals. When the wind is blowing everybody off course, if you have good values and a defined purpose, you’re going to stay the course because you can always go back to those. That\u2019s always your number one position and your fallback position.<\/p>\n So it\u2019s important that we define those things. Allison, you and I were talking yesterday, that\u2019s probably the hardest thing any of us can do is to really define who we are because we tend to go on our reputation which is defined by others. Because you’re a great dentist, you do great work, you’re a great endodontist and all of a sudden, okay, then that\u2019s my identity. I\u2019m a great endodontist. I can do this and I can do that.<\/p>\n But that\u2019s not the real you. The real you is your character which is internally defined. In order to find that out, it\u2019s a very introspective process and sometimes it\u2019s not a fun one because we see some things about ourselves that we wish were different.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And we have to be willing to change that.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And that process, we talked a little bit about that yesterday. I noticed for me, you know, I had people tell me that I needed to do my vision, and my mission, and all of that. I did do that, to a certain extent, but it\u2019s ever-changing, right?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Absolutely.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So it\u2019s not, for one thing, it\u2019s not stagnant. It\u2019s not something you do once and then you’re done. A process, you said.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well your values and your purpose really don\u2019t change. Those are the two things that are immutable. In fact, there\u2019s a book, it\u2019s called The Living Business<\/em>. The author\u2019s name is Arie de Geus, D-E-G-E-U-S.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 How do you spell Arie? A-R-I?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 A-R-I-E.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Phenomenal book. He actually worked for Shell Oil Company overseas and was hired to research why certain companies lasted through generations and generations and others failed and floundered. He actually found a company in Scandinavia. It was a family-owned company that was 500 years old\u2014500 years. You can imagine how many political and geopolitical changes took place in 500 years and that company was still owned by the same people.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Wow.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Now, they started out as a ship building company but as time changed and that wasn\u2019t profitable, they went into forestry and then as time changed, they went into blah blah blah. They must have changed four or five times, but they still kept the same principles and they kept the same values and the same purpose for the whole 500 years.<\/p>\n His thesis was, is that companies that maintain those types of cultures in which the values and the purpose are immutable, are the ones that are sustainable. Those are the sustainable businesses. It\u2019s a fascinating book if you\u2014oh gosh, I\u2019ll look it up while we\u2019re talking but I\u2019ll give you the name of it. But the author is Arie de Geus. It\u2019s a great book.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So that process then that I experienced was more of a process of uncovering my true values.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Not so much that they changed, even though that\u2019s what it felt like.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, we all have the store window values that we think everybody wants to see when they’re shopping. We also have the ones that are the true us. In our practice, we have kind of a unique group. I’m from Texas, I have an Irishman and I have an Australian, both of which were here on green cards as partners. So we have come from varied backgrounds so when we did think like this, it was really interesting.<\/p>\n One of the values we came up with was freedom. Everybody said, well that\u2019s kind of strange because you know, most of the values are kindness, integrity, and that type of stuff. The reason we chose freedom is we always want to be able to do and become the people that we want to become irrespective of what was going on in our business.<\/p>\n So we\u2019ve lived together for now, David\u2019s been with me 15 years, and John 10 years. We always support one another. David just got his masters of fine arts and I just got my MBA and John is a photographer and a cook, a gourmet cook. So we always are supportive of one another. But that for us, that was important. So values don\u2019t have to be what other people think they should be. For us, the thought of freedom was very important so we included that in our values statement.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Cool. So one of the things I thought was really exciting in your book was that you said that, for me, I love the whole conversation about self-awareness.<\/p>\n You said that when 75 members of Stanford Graduate School, this came out of a book called True North<\/em>, when the 75 members of Stanford Graduate School of Business\u2019s Advisory Council were asked to recommend the most important capability for leaders to develop, their answer was nearly unanimous self-awareness.<\/p>\n I thought that was really interesting, it wasn\u2019t like decisiveness or\u2014but it makes sense, because if you don\u2019t know who you are, if you don\u2019t have the self-awareness to know who you are then you’re not aligned with your own\u2026<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Also, I think, at least in my opinion, one of the true characteristics of an effective leader is authenticity. In order to be authentic, you have to be self-aware. How can you be authentic if you don\u2019t know who you are? Where\u2019s your authenticity?<\/p>\n Authenticity, it diffuses issues. When people know that they can trust you, that you have their back, you speak from the heart, there\u2019s no duplicity, there\u2019s no agenda there. They know that what they hear is true. Self-awareness is the key to authenticity.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay. Then because you just brought up the thing about trust. You said also, and I think this is part of authenticity, is that our team not only needs to know what our values are but they need to see us living in alignment with our own values. There\u2019s a whole piece about some of the practices that you\u2019ve worked with where they say one thing and then they’re doing another.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Exactly.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 They don\u2019t even realize it.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Let me back up here because I think there\u2019s a whole segment that would be worth discussing here. How many\u2014you can raise your hand\u2014how many people here have always wondered how you find the right people for your staff? How do we find the right people to fill the slots in our practice? I think all of us have really thought through that. All of us have made mistakes and hired people out of necessity or because we need to plug a warm body.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 [Laughs] Lisa raised her hand. I don\u2019t think she really has a question.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Hey, we all do it. You know, I\u2019m not saying you don\u2019t. I\u2019m saying I do it. We\u2019ve all done it in the past, and isn\u2019t that a regretful situation because it always seems to fail on you? I think the more you’re self-aware, the more you’re authentic, the more you have a collaborative culture, the more you actually define who you are, then you become a mirror. People can look in your mirror.<\/p>\n And you know what? We talked about this yesterday, Allison, we think that people follow us because we\u2019re such great leaders. I don\u2019t agree with that. I think people follow us because they see something about themselves in us. The clearer we know who we are, and we understand our values and our purpose, and the clearer reflection we can give to them of who we truly are, they can look in our mirror and see themselves.<\/p>\n Then they choose whether they want to align with us or not. They can either go their own way, which I would prefer they did if they’re not aligned with what I believe in. Or they can choose to align with us. I think there are cultures out there that are so strong that people that come into them that are not aligned with the culture stick out so badly that they cannot last a week. They’re gone.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Because it\u2019s so obvious because everyone else is so committed and so aligned to the culture that you\u2019ve created, or you collaboratively have collaborated, that an outsider that doesn\u2019t align with that just can\u2019t make it. It\u2019s impossible.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right, yeah. I’ve had that experience. I think mine is really just getting to that point after 18 years but it seems like it\u2019s getting clearer and clearer to us as a team what we really want. It\u2019s getting clearer and clearer to the people when they\u2014if they do come to work there they don\u2019t last very long if they don\u2019t fit.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You know what else is interesting? When you get to that point, when you reach that pinnacle where you have that kind of staff and all of a sudden, you become a magnet for the really good people out there. No longer do you have to hire people to fill a warm body in an empty slot. Now you have all the good people coming to you because they want to work for you. They know that the turnover rate is not very high number one so when an opportunity becomes available, you get calls from all over town from people who want to come and work for you.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah. This is the part that, Jill, when we were earlier talking and Jill was saying something about marketing the practice and new patients. I think it also, when you have a really strong culture, your patients experience that. Then you attract the patients that appreciate that kind of service or whatever it is that your values are, it also affects your patients.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, you know, that goes directly into the discussion of your brand too. As I said in the book and I’ve written a couple of articles on this, we\u2019re in a different kind of industry. We\u2019re in the service industry. So I kind of compare and contrast us to someone like Nike. Nike can make a shoe and you may love their shoe. You may be brand loyal to that Nike shoe. In other words, you can go into the sporting goods store and walk by the Asics and the Brooks and all of them that may be right up front, more accessible, less expensive, but you’re going to go right to that Nike shoe and you’re going to buy it.<\/p>\n But here\u2019s the thing, you may like the shoe but what does that tell you about the culture of Nike? That tells you nothing. For all you know or don\u2019t know, that shoe could have been made in a sweatshop overseas by underage children. You don\u2019t know that. But when you walk into a dental office, we don\u2019t have a product we manufacture. We don\u2019t really sell anything except our culture.<\/p>\n When people walk into our office, the very first thing they see is your staff. Your staff is a manifestation of your culture. When they communicate with these people, they are actually experiencing your culture. So in reality, in a service industry, a small enterprise, a service industry like a microenterprise, which is ten employees or less, which defines most dental practices, your culture is actually your brand. There\u2019s no distinction between culture and brand in our business.<\/p>\n So people say well I need to have… my stationary needs to match, my colors\u2026 it doesn\u2019t matter. It doesn\u2019t matter. Your culture is your people. You have to develop your people to brand yourself. That is your brand. Your people are your brand. That\u2019s the one thing that no one else can reproduce.<\/p>\n I have a cone beam. Do any of you want a cone beam? You can have it. I\u2019ll give you the number. For $80,000 you can have a cone beam. I mean, that\u2019s the thing. There\u2019s nothing that I know or I have that you can\u2019t know or have, except my culture. You cannot have my culture. That is the one distinguishing factor that is the competitive advantage.<\/p>\n [Allison and Joel speaking at the same time]<\/p>\n It\u2019s a sustainable competitive advantage. That is the only sustainable competitive advantage that we have in dentistry is our culture. That\u2019s it.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I love that. Yeah, you said twice in the book something like this or maybe this, I may have written it down exactly like this: It\u2019s not what the customer receives but how they receive it.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Because they can receive a root canal from me or a root canal from you, but how are they treated? And how are they cared for? How are they followed up with? Right? That\u2019s what you mean by that.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Exactly. It\u2019s not what you’re giving, it\u2019s how you’re giving it. That\u2019s becoming more and more obvious. There\u2019s so much information coming through our heads every day, on the radio, on the news, on our iPhones, everything. I think we have a sense to block things out.<\/p>\n I don\u2019t think advertising means much anymore like it used to. There\u2019s just so much of it. It\u2019s almost like it\u2019s white noise in the background anymore. I don\u2019t know how much of it really really sticks with us. But an experience of a service does stick with us. We\u2019ll remember that. We\u2019ll come back to that. That means something to us.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 True. Do you mind\u2014I don’t know if this is even appropriate and I don\u2019t know if I brought it up with you last night. I kind of liked your idea of the touch points, the exercise that you do?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You mean the one where I added up all the time spent?<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah and I don’t know, whatever you think would be valuable for people but I do think it would be\u2014I think one of the ways that we can actually take this phone call back to our practices, this is my idea and if you have a better idea of an exercise. I was just thinking to take this information back and maybe start to make some of the changes in our practice, to our culture, or something. That maybe a way to do that may be to start looking at obviously the values and the purpose but also maybe look at what experience are we giving our patients?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Exactly.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What experience, I don’t know I was just trying to think of maybe an exercise and that was one that popped into my head.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think that\u2019s a great exercise, particularly for the people that are on the staffs that are on this call. I mean, it wouldn\u2019t be a bad idea to start keeping track of touch points. A touch point is really any communication, even on the phone, between you and the patient. So what I did is I added up touch points. The staff\u2019s touch points and my touch points with patients.<\/p>\n Overwhelmingly, the staff spent more time with my patients than I did. I think you\u2019ll find that to be true in your offices too. They answer the phones, they book the appointments, they greet the patients, they take the x-rays, they do the pulp testing that we do. When I\u2019m done, I say goodbye and I review the file, films, and explain to them what we\u2019ve done. The staff helps them get out. They\u2019ll make calls to the referring offices and that type.<\/p>\n If you look at it, the staff spends an inordinate amount of time with the patient. The doctor spends, I spent about half the time that my staff spends with a patient. If the experience is the culture and the culture is the brand, then your staff becomes a very significant part of the brand. It\u2019s incumbent upon us to make sure that the staff not only commits to the culture we have. But we have to give them the permission to do what they do and the resources to be successful at it.<\/p>\n So that was the whole purpose I think of the touch point example. It\u2019s not a bad thing to do in your own practices because you\u2019ll realize once you do it, the doctor has\u2014you know, I would love to think all of my patients come to me because of me but the reality of it is they love my staff.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah. I had a patient one time tell me that if my hygienist left that she was going to follow her wherever she went.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Absolutely. I tell all the perio residents that I talk to, especially residents, I say, \u201cDo not go into a practice and run that hygienist off.\u201d That would be a big mistake. Basically what we\u2019re talking about is the culture. I want everybody to think within and understand like I’ve learned what does it take to have the kind of culture in which people hold nothing back? In which your staff is not afraid to take things upon themselves?<\/p>\n Then you provide them with the psychological safety that they can go out there and make choices. Even if the choice is bad and even if they mistake, as long as they can explain to me that number one, what they thought they were doing adhered to our core ideology. Number two, that what they thought they were doing was in the patient\u2019s best interest. Then they did not make a mistake in spite of the fact that the outcome may not been favorable. They have to have that kind of freedom to be able to do those kind of things.<\/p>\n We have to get away from micromanaging people. Micromanagement is one of the worst things that we as practice owners do. It de-energizes, it disenfranchises, we have to create cultures that are collaborative, that people feel like they’re relevant and we have to be vulnerable enough to trust them to do what we know they are capable of doing. We have to be multipliers and multiply their capabilities by giving them the resources to be successful.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I love what you’re saying. I am going to make myself a big star because we have a question and I want to come to that, Joel.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Sure.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think it\u2019s Kate. Let me unmute you, Kate. Is that you that has a question?<\/p>\n Kate:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, well it\u2019s not a question. I\u2019m really enjoying what you as dentists are saying. This is honestly the first dentist-related course I’ve been let in on as a hygienist. You know, I\u2019m trying to do more collaborative hygiene work and bring patients into dental practices and actually be proactive about dental offices succeeding, even on my own time.<\/p>\n I\u2019m just really really excited about what you guys are saying because I think there\u2019s a ton of dentists that could really benefit from this course. I just was going to offer up that I read a lot of reviews about dental offices, even before I go help them out. One thing I think that is super beneficial is besides even your website reviews, is to do a Google search on your name on practice reviews because one thing hygienists often, and assistants, and front office will hear the real story without the dentist in the room.<\/p>\n Often when I\u2019m reading these online, you can have let\u2019s say a so-so dentist or a good dentist and if you have good staff, the patients will stay. But if you have a so-so dentist and a good dentist with one bad experience, one bad overbearing staff member, one that\u2019s diagnosing as a front office manager and shouldn\u2019t be, and giving estimates based on a diagnosis or anything like that, a patient in these reviews will leave.<\/p>\n So I find it really telling when patients are writing online. It\u2019s much more like therapy. You can see in real time what they really thought and one little straw that broke their back. So I just wanted to offer that up.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Sure, absolutely. Yeah, we check our media, we\u2019re on Angie\u2019s List and all, we look at that all the time. You\u2019re absolutely right. Some of the write-ups are pretty telling. Fortunately, most of them are good. We have had a couple bad ones. I think everybody gets one or two of those occasionally for whatever reason. It\u2019s important to monitor those, absolutely. That\u2019s a good point.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Thanks. Anything else, Kate? Oh, I think she muted herself already.<\/p>\n Kate:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I muted myself.<\/p>\n [Laughter]<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay, I\u2019ll mute you too. If you have another question, raise your hand again. Thanks. Or comment, yeah. I’ve also seen kind of a similar thing but I’ve seen not very good dentists who have a great practice, very successful practice, because of their, I would say culture. Just the personality of the dentist, the team is fun, the team takes good care of the patients. Then you see some really good dentists who don\u2019t get to do their really good dentistry because they’re just not as appealing as far as relationships and personality and being able to really connect with people.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Absolutely true.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I want to talk more about the vulnerability and trust piece. I thought something that you said was really interesting in the book. I mentioned it to you already but can you talk a little bit about, you said something about giving trust before you expect to get trust. Like just to get to trust your team before you expect them to trust you. Or instead of making them prove to you to trust them, right?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right. Well, I think that goes back to the fact, I\u2019m sure that I\u2019m not saying anything here that people don\u2019t already know. If you’re going to lead people, you have to lead by example. No one\u2019s going to follow a leader that doesn\u2019t follow his own words. Your deeds have to follow your words.<\/p>\n If you make trust\u2014which I think everybody would want to do\u2014and make trust a part of their culture, then you have to be the first one. You have to be front and center when it comes to trust. There will be times when your trust will be violated so to speak.<\/p>\n In the book, I talked about shrinking within ourselves and not wanting to come out of our shell after something like that happens. But you know, I think what really teaches the staff something is for them to see this develop. To see the whole picture in front of themselves. To see their doctor\u2019s trust violated and to see how the doctor handles it.<\/p>\n I think that is such a powerful message to your staff to see someone that they know because they know other staff members and they always know, believe me, the staff knows what happens. If you think the staff doesn\u2019t know what happens, I would disagree with you. They know what happens.<\/p>\n They know when something\u2019s happened. They know when your trust has been violated by another staff member. Or even another person for that matter. When they see how you react and you turn right around and come back and trust again and give that trust, then that tells them that you’re the real deal.<\/p>\n It\u2019s important to be able to give trust. Now, there are certain times when trust has to be doled out, little by little, you don\u2019t just open everything up to people necessarily, but the concept of trust, you have to lead the way. There\u2019s no question about it. You have to lead the way. If you don\u2019t trust, then they’re not going to trust. If you don\u2019t have trust in the relationship\u2014I trust, as all of you do, I\u2019m sure. You wouldn\u2019t have people around you. We trust the people that work for us. We should. If you don\u2019t, you need to get rid of them.<\/p>\n There\u2019s never an issue then\u2014if something goes wrong in our office, I never even think about it being a matter of somebody violating my trust. I always look for a different explanation and usually that\u2019s when I find.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, okay. Thank you for that. I think this is Jill.<\/p>\n Darvy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Actually it\u2019s me, Darvy.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh that\u2019s Darvy. It\u2019s Darvy. Okay. Hi, Darvy.<\/p>\n Darvy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 The question I have for the speaker is that you know we can control our practice culture but now we\u2019re talking about interdisciplinary or multidisciplinary dentistry. We have talented teams where some of the cultures within their practices are not as high level as others.<\/p>\n So being that he\u2019s a specialist, how does he manage it? Because we don\u2019t want to over function for our interdisciplinary team. So how does he handle that?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You said we don\u2019t want to over function?<\/p>\n Darvy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, you know, when a patient goes to all the different practices when we\u2019re doing the interdisciplinary case. Some people\u2019s cultures are great and other doctor\u2019s cultures, are not. How do you manage that? Because obviously some of your referrals don\u2019t have a good culture.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, some of them don\u2019t. You know, we talk to them a lot of times about\u2014I had lunch with one of our good referrers and who is also a Pankey and Dawson and Spear dentist. He kept losing patients. I mean, patients would come into me and say, \u201cPlease send me somewhere else.\u201d<\/p>\n Being a specialist, we get to work with so many offices. If you\u2019re attuned to the culture-type issues, you see very clearly why these offices are floundering. It becomes really obvious to you. This was a particular office that the staff turnover was, you know, it\u2019s like a revolving door. The doctor had some personality issues and stuff.<\/p>\n So I went and talked to him. I said, \u201cI don’t know how to tell you this. I hope you take it the right way. But I\u2019m having a significant number of patients coming to my office that want me to send them elsewhere. I\u2019m having to do it because they’re insisting. I don\u2019t want to do that because I know you’re a very good\u201d and is, a very good dentist. But doesn\u2019t have a very good culture.<\/p>\n In having done that, have things changed? No. They haven\u2019t. I still have patients coming and wanting me to send them elsewhere. I\u2019m still doing it because I have no choice. All we can do in that situation is do our part and feel good that we did everything that we could do to help that person out. I talked to him about his staff. I talked to him about issues. But obviously, he didn\u2019t want to change it.<\/p>\n Now, would I not accept a patient from him? No. Because it\u2019s not the patient\u2019s fault that they’re seeing a doctor that has a poor culture. If they choose to go somewhere else, I\u2019ll get them there but I\u2019m certainly not going to quit working with the doctor because I think I owe that to his patients. Did I answer that? Did I answer that or not?<\/p>\n Darvy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, you did. Well, you did from the specialist referral. Like from a general dentist office, we\u2019re the one who\u2019s creating the team.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n Darvy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So as the culture gets worse, sometimes we have to sit there and search out a different specialist that has a different culture. But sometimes the cultures are great for a long time and then something happens and it goes downhill. That\u2019s what I\u2019m experiencing right now.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Let me ask you this, would you be comfortable talking to that doctor? Having lunch with him and telling him what the issues are?<\/p>\n Darvy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You know, I think the doctor has to be willing to listen.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, that\u2019s true. But you know, you don\u2019t know that until you do it. Then even if they’re not willing to listen, then you go back to your office saying, \u201cI feel good about what I did because I did the right thing.\u201d If he chooses not to listen, then that\u2019s his prerogative. With somebody you\u2019ve worked with a long time and that happens, I would honor them by having that discussion with them.<\/p>\n Darvy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I agree.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Because they deserve that. If they choose not to change it, then you can move away and never think twice about it. You did what you should have done.<\/p>\n Darvy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s true. Thank you.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, absolutely.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Thanks, Darvy. All right, I muted you again, Mark Darvy. So if you want to say something else, just raise your hand again. Is there anything else you want to say, Joel? Because I\u2019m going to kind of change the subject.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, no. We were going to talk about communication of course. If you had Brian DesRoches on, actually Brian DesRoches is the one I got the part about being 100 percent responsible for our communications. That\u2019s really Brian\u2019s stuff. I\u2019m a big fan of Brian\u2019s. I\u2019ve studied with Brian.<\/p>\n I think this is something that if none of you were on that call, that might be worth repeating because I see it so often in dental practices, specialists, generalists, otherwise. That is that we never accept, or I shouldn\u2019t say never, but we often do not accept responsibility for the communication.<\/p>\n When I say that, I mean this: it\u2019s not only important that we understand what we said, which believe it or not, some people don\u2019t. But it\u2019s also important that we are perfectly clear that the person receive the message as we intended it to be received.<\/p>\n What happens many times is we\u2014and I\u2019ll tell you a perfect example. My son, when he was younger, my wife would come to me and say, \u201cYou said this and this to Zach.\u201d I would say, \u201cNo, I didn\u2019t.\u201d She said, \u201cYes, you did.\u201d I learned from Brian that it didn\u2019t matter what I thought I was saying. What really mattered was what he was hearing from me.<\/p>\n So we have to be responsible with our staff and our patients that not only do we say what we want to say and feel comfortable that we\u2019ve said it properly, but we also have to be responsible for making sure that they heard it as intended.<\/p>\n If you think about it, in many of your practices, that\u2019s where communication breaks down because the message we\u2019re trying to deliver is not being heard by them, particularly in an endodontic practice where people come in in pain. They’re probably not hearing anything you have to say. Following up on that communication to make sure that it was heard properly can become critical and it can become a very important issue in your office.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So you’re just saying ask a question?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, absolutely.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Just ask.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Absolutely, yes. You say, \u201cLet me just be clear. I want to make sure you heard this correctly from me.\u201d Then you go ahead and say, \u201cPlease repeat back to me.\u201d Or, \u201cTell me what you heard me say.\u201d Make sure that everybody is on board.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 But I\u2019m not taking credit, that\u2019s strictly Brian DesRoches stuff.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well and I liked also when you were talking to, maybe right before you were talking to Darvy you said, you were telling the story of meeting with a dentist friend and the way you started out the conversation was something like, \u201cThis is a hard thing to say. I hope you take this the right way.\u201d<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You sort of managed their expectations by saying, \u201cThis is a hard conversation.\u201d<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Sure, of course.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u201cAnd I hope you understand my intentions when I say this.\u201d Like you\u2019re speaking from love, you know?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes. Anybody that would be in their right mind would know that when their endodontists come to talk to them about something like that, they’re doing it out of concern.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No one\u2019s going to do that just for the fun of doing it.<\/p>\n [Laughter]<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Absolutely, not.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, absolutely.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think we have a question. I think this time it is Jill. Is that you, Jill?<\/p>\n Jill:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, it is.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay.<\/p>\n Jill:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Could you spell Brian\u2019s last name for me?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It\u2019s D-e-s-R-o-c-h-e-s.<\/p>\n Jill:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay. What was the name of the book again?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 My book?<\/p>\n Jill:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, I thought it was his book.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, well, Brian does have some books. I can\u2019t remember the names of them but you can go on his website.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Jill, also if you want, and Kate, I think you too probably because you guys just signed up. If you guys want me to send you a copy, I think what Joel is referring to is I\u2019m going to send him a copy also of the link. I had a call with Brian.<\/p>\n Jill:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, that was what I was referring to.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 He has three books. I know one is called Your Boss is Not Your Mother<\/em>.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, that\u2019s right. There was one like that.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 He has a new one that sounds really good and I can\u2019t remember the name of it but I don\u2019t even think it\u2019s been released yet. But anyway, I can help you with that. Just email me or something and I\u2019ll email you the recorded call so you can listen to him. He\u2019s really fantastic.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah. Brian is a clinical psychologist and he works a lot with dentists. He does some leadership workshops that I\u2019ve taken. I know Mac McDonald has taking them, a lot of us have taken them here. It\u2019s really exceptional. I would recommend it to anybody because it tells you so much about yourself.<\/p>\n Jill:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Thank you.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You bet, absolutely.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You\u2019re welcome. Do you feel complete, Jill?<\/p>\n Jill:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, I do.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay. Thanks. I\u2019m going to re-mute you. Okay. What I wanted to ask you about next was, this is the thing I was saying I don\u2019t really hear anybody talking about in dentistry. I mostly hear it sort of in spiritual conversations. It\u2019s the abundance mindset.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I’d love to hear what you have to say about that. I think that\u2019s really neat.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, I\u2019ll tell you how it applies to us and our practice. I tell my partners almost on a daily basis that it\u2019s in our best interests that each of us be successful. That\u2019s kind of a buzz word around here. That each of us gains and grows by everyone else\u2019s success. We try and do that with our staff as well. We have some staff members that are taking college courses, trying to become MBAs and so forth and we\u2019re helping them along the way.<\/p>\n We just believe that we all, it\u2019s like doing well by doing good was a famous statement. It\u2019s attributed maybe to Benjamin Franklin and I\u2019m a true believer. There\u2019s a book out by the way, that I think is a really really good book. It\u2019s call Give and Take<\/em>. It\u2019s a new book, hang on, I\u2019ll tell you who wrote it.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You like to read, huh, Joel?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I read a lot.<\/p>\n [Laughter]<\/p>\n I\u2019m an avid reader. The name of the book, it\u2019s newly published. It\u2019s Give and Take<\/em>. It\u2019s written, I\u2019ve got it here on my computer by Adam Grant. It really proves to you that good folks can finish first. They don\u2019t always finish last. So I think there\u2019s something about abundance versus scarcity. There\u2019s a scarcity mentality. The difference is that the person that\u2019s abundant sees their glass as being half full. The person that\u2019s scarce, sees scarcity, sees into their glass as being half empty.<\/p>\n The difference in the cultures they create is so significant. One would ultimately become a culture of commitment. That would be the person that believes in abundance, where people can buy-in because you’re working as hard to make them successful as they’re working to make you successful. Everybody transforms themselves by the synergy of that relationship. Then in the other, the scarcity mentality, everybody covets everything. If I had a pizza and you ate a piece of it, then there\u2019s less for me.<\/p>\n So what happens, that becomes a compliant culture because everybody is guarding themselves. They’re guarding their treasure so to speak. They don\u2019t want to be collaborative. So rather than have commitment, you have compliance. The difference between commitment and compliance, I could do a whole hour on just that. It\u2019s just phenomenal the difference between a compliant and a committed culture.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, I know what abundance means to me, but it\u2019s not about the money. It\u2019s really about just believing that you can give and you can grow. It\u2019s sort of an unlimited possibilities kind of a thing. You said it\u2019s not a philosophy, it\u2019s a lifestyle.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I did.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What do you mean by that?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well I think you either live a life of abundance or you don\u2019t. It\u2019s in everything you do. It\u2019s not just what you do at church. It\u2019s not what you do in your practice. It\u2019s woven into the fiber of your being. To be an abundant person is part of who you are. To have a scarcity mentality I think that that has the same definition. It becomes part of who you are. I just believe that you either live an abundant life or you don\u2019t. It\u2019s just part of who you are.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay. We can develop that, right?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, yes. In answer to your question, you can develop it. But it\u2019s not an easy thing to do because if you think about, and you take it all the way back to even your childhood, it started even back then. Were you willing to share your toys with others?<\/p>\n When I talk to these doctors and I talk about associateships and partnerships, the first thing I say is, \u201cDisregard everything that you\u2019ve heard. Here\u2019s the crux. Here\u2019s the crux of the matter. Do you play well with others?\u201d I mean, do you play well with others. That\u2019s basically it. If you’re going to have a partner, if you’re going to have an associate, you have to answer that question, do you play well with others. If the answer is no, it\u2019s not for you.<\/p>\n Playing well with others kind of embodies the thought of abundance. That\u2019s believing that we each gain from each other\u2019s success.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Like that whole thing is something that\u2019s sort of intangible a little bit, right?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, yes and no. Because if you look at all the great minds in leadership today, Zinger, Jim Collins, all the great thinkers today, they will, no matter what metric they use, no matter what they were trying to measure, they always found out that cultures that were qualitative versus quantitative, in other words, the stressed life, the better life, the collaboration, the psychologically-safe environment, those were always, no matter what metric you used, more successful in the end than qualitative cultures.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Than quantitative\u2026<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Than quantitative, yes.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 If you\u2019re looking at financially, they were more successful. If you\u2019re looking at staff satisfaction, they were infinitely more successful. Every metric you can use to measure between those two was skewed to the abundant culture.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay. That encompasses a lot, that abundance culture thing.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Absolutely.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay. One of the things that you talked about that I could wrap my head around was that piece about focusing on strengths instead of weaknesses. I think that\u2019s a really cool thing. How did you do that in your practice? Did you do strength finders or any of that kind of stuff?<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No. I\u2019ll tell you, just to give you an example. We have two\u2014well, one lady is working on her MBA right now. She\u2019s doing it in marketing. So we just gave her our Facebook and our e-newsletter. She has just done a bang-up job with it. We just knew that she was the kind of person that would really flourish. She has really flourished as a person by doing that. I mean, it\u2019s really been something special for her.<\/p>\n You have to look at the strengths, some people are better up front. You know, people people, others are little worker bees, and so forth. You\u2019ve got to figure out what they’re good at and what they enjoy doing. It\u2019s like Jim Collins said, \u201cYou\u2019ve got to get the right people on the bus.\u201d He wrote Good to Great<\/em>. Get the right people on the bus. He said that\u2019s number one but number two is to make sure the people are in the right seats. That\u2019s what you\u2019re referring to as strengths.<\/p>\n What\u2019s interesting, this is just an observation that I’ve made. I’d love to hear if everybody else has ever experienced this. The more you play to people\u2019s strengths, the more they grow and gain from achieving things through their strengths, the more you\u2019ll see their deficiencies disappear.<\/p>\n Because I think a lot of deficiencies we see are because people don\u2019t give it their all. They’re afraid to do it. If you can empower them by addressing their strengths and giving them the resources to do what they need to do and they start to gain confidence, a lot of times, the deficiencies just spontaneously disappear.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I love that.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I bet that\u2019s true. Also you’re not focusing on them. What you focus on grows.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right, exactly.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 If you starve the weaknesses by giving them no attention whatsoever, then that\u2019s cool. I like that.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay. Well I know we\u2019re getting to close to the end of time so I don\u2019t want to start another question. Is there anything you want to sort of wrap with, Joel? Then I can open the lines and let everybody say goodbye.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Sure.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Or if anybody has any questions.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 All in all, and as I\u2019ve said from the get go, I\u2019m not here to lecture. I guess I did. I guess that was the format for tonight. But I love conversations more than lecturing and I\u2019m just trying to hit some high points with all of you. Just understand I\u2019ve been there. I\u2019ve done that. I know how hard it is to truly become a leader. It\u2019s a journey that I haven\u2019t succeeded in completely and am still working on and studying. But it\u2019s a journey worth taking.<\/p>\n The end result is not only\u2014and I think the important thing to understand is that the more you develop yourself as a leader, the more your practices will benefit. But even more importantly, the more you\u2019ll benefit personally. It transforms your life and not just your business. It\u2019s a journey that\u2019s very definitely worth taking.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I\u2019m going to say this because I know we have some people on here that are\u2014I mean, actually more people on here today are not dentists than are dentists today.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So you\u2019re speaking to everybody. Not just the dentists. You\u2019re saying every single person in the practice.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Absolutely.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, I think it\u2019s universal. Just very quickly, we had a lady here in our office that had a very bad marriage. Husband had some drug problems, spent all their money and so forth and so on. She was really struggling to make ends meet. She was depressed and so forth. We just worked with her and we gave her the nurturing, the care, we were very understanding of her issues.<\/p>\n Over time, really through the culture, because we were the only decent culture she had experience in. She developed a very strong personality and developed her own self confidence and ended up separating, segregating her funds from her husband\u2019s funds and just retired not long ago because now she owns four or five rent homes in town. She\u2019s making enough money that she doesn\u2019t have to work anymore.<\/p>\n You just saw her grow throughout that. So this is something that\u2019s important to everybody. Her values and her purpose were defined, I think more here than anywhere. Because of the strength that she had, she was able to pull herself out of that situation and we were very proud of her. We hated to lose her but we thought that was a wonderful story.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That is a wonderful story. Awesome, thank you, Joel, so much.<\/p>\n Joel:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Thank you.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 For sharing your time with us.<\/p>\n Joel: I enjoyed it, visiting with all of you.<\/p>\n Thanks for listening to Practicing with the Masters<\/em> for dentists, with your host, Dr. Allison Watts. For more about how Allison Watts and Transformational Practices can help you create a successful and fulfilling practice and life, visit transformationalpractices.com<\/a>.<\/p>\n <\/div> <\/p>\n <\/p>\n <\/p>\n <\/p>\n <\/p>\n <\/p>\n <\/p>\n <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" On this episode, I am thrilled to welcome Dr. Joel Small. Dr. Small is an endodontist, a speaker, author and an entrepreneur. With over 36 years of experience in endodontics, Dr. Small has heavily contributed to his specialty, from cofounding of the North Texas Endodontic Associates in Plano, Texas, to serving the American Associates of […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_et_pb_use_builder":"","_et_pb_old_content":"","_et_gb_content_width":"","_cloudinary_featured_overwrite":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[303],"tags":[309,305,304,307],"yoast_head":"\nWhat You’ll Learn From This Episode:<\/h3>\n
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Listen To The Full Interview:<\/h3>\n\n
Featured On The Show:<\/h3>\n
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Full Episode Transcript:<\/h3>\n
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<\/a><\/p>\nCreating the Culture for Success with Dr. Joel Small<\/h3>\n
CLICK HERE TO READ THE TRANSCRIPT (9,699 WORDS )<\/span><\/a><\/div>\n
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