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On this episode of the Practicing with the Masters<\/em> podcast, <\/em>I am honored to invite our guest\u00a0Chuck Blakeman, who’s not only a systems guy and amazing leadership coach, but \u00a0also an incredible businessman. Over the past 25 years, Chuck has launched\u00a07 businesses, 5 of which became incredibly successful. Drawing upon\u00a0his success in business and experiences in leadership, Chuck teaches business owners how to create their own success. His company, The Crankset Group, provides outcome-based mentoring and peer advisory for business owners worldwide. Chuck sold one of his businesses to one of the largest consumer fulfillment companies in America, and led three other $10-100 million companies through re-positioning in the marketing, support and services industry.<\/p>\n Currently, Chuck leads the Crankset group and a multimillion dollar for-profit business based in Africa\u00a0that focuses\u00a0on solving poverty through development of local economics. Chuck helps his clients by being a results leader (versus a\u00a0thought leader). He has decades of\u00a0experience in sales, marketing and operations, \u00a0leading companies in marketing, import\/export, fulfillment, call centers, website development, printing and direct email processing. As a part of his work to develop the local economies in Africa, he is also exports their\u00a0agricultural products and minerals to the rest of the world. \u00a0Some of his customers have included Microsoft, Apple, Eli Lilly, Tap Pharmaceuticals, John Manville and many more.<\/p>\n Chuck is a regular convention speaker, magazine contributor and a non-profit board member. His book, Making Money is Killing Your Business<\/em>, was named #1 business book by the National Federation of Independent Businesses in 2010. Chuck still speaks all over the US and the World\u00a0over a hundred\u00a0times a year.\u00a0He has been in the Harvard Business Journal, Entrepreneur Magazine, CNN Money.com, NYT.Com, and was recently cited in Dr. Stephen Covey\u2019s new book The 3rd<\/sup> Alternative. <\/em>Today, we are focusing on his new book, Why Employees are Always a Bad Idea. <\/em>If you are tired of always feeling life your business will fall apart if you aren’t involved in\u00a0every decision made, then this episode is for you. Click \u201cPlay\u201d below to get started.<\/p>\n Welcome to Practicing with the Masters<\/em> for dentists with your host, Dr. Allison Watts. Allison believes that there are four pillars for a successful, fulfilling dental practice: clear leadership, sound business principles, well-developed communication skills, and clinical excellence. Allison enjoys helping dentists and teams excel in all of these areas. Each episode she brings you an inspiring conversation with another leading expert. If you desire to learn and grow and in the process take your practice to the next level, then this is the show for you. Now, here\u2019s your host, Dr. Allison Watts.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Welcome to Practicing with the Masters<\/em> podcast. I\u2019m your host, Allison Watts, and I\u2019m dedicated to bringing you masters in the field of dentistry, leadership, and practice management to help you have a more fulfilling and successful practice and life.<\/p>\n All right, welcome everybody. We are here tonight with Chuck Blakeman. I first heard of Chuck at the Speaking Consulting Network and I heard him on Vanessa Emerson\u2019s teleclass and just instantly\u2014well actually a lot of the people at the SCN meeting recommended that I read his book, which I did and loved immediately.<\/p>\n Then I had to call Chuck and talk to him about his wonderful book. Now I\u2019ve got the opportunity to have him on this because Linda Miles said that not only can Chuck show you how to\u2014he\u2019s not just a systems guy, he\u2019s a leadership guy. I\u2019m thrilled to have you here, Chuck.<\/p>\n Chuck: \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It\u2019s my pleasure, thank you for having me.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, and I know you\u2019re a business guy. You\u2019ve had seven successful businesses in 25 years, both in the United States and internationally.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Actually only five of them were successful.<\/p>\n [Laughter]<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Seven businesses, five of them successful. That\u2019s funny, I\u2019ve been in practice 18 years and I don\u2019t know how many of those have been successful. I probably ought to figure that out sometime.<\/p>\n So he\u2019s been in business for a long time and been successful for many of those years. Now he uses his leadership experience to help business owners create success. His company, the Crankset Group, provides outcome-based mentoring and peer advisory for business owners worldwide in the United States, Europe, Africa, and Australia. Is that right, Australia?<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Australasia, yeah.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Australasia, that\u2019s what I thought it said.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Fancy term for New Zealand and Australia. I guess it\u2019s easier to say, except when you have to explain it like this.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Australasia. I have never heard that. Yeah, so Chuck served in the army, the U.S. Army, followed by 13 years of service in a nonprofit leadership development. He sold one of his businesses to the largest consumer fulfillment company in America and led three other $10 to $100 million companies through repositioning in the marketing support services industry.<\/p>\n He presently leads the Crankset Group and a multimillion dollar for-profit business based in Africa focusing on solving poverty through development of local economics. I just think that\u2019s amazing. I wish we could talk about that too. Another day, another time. Wow. That\u2019s amazing.<\/p>\n Mr. Blakeman is a results leader, not a thought leader. I think that\u2019s an interesting comment, Chuck. He\u2019s a results leader. And has decades of sales, marketing, and operations experience leading companies in marketing, import\/export fulfillment, call centers, website development, printing, and direct email processing. He now also exports agricultural products and minerals from Africa to the world.<\/p>\n Some of his customers have included Microsoft, Apple, Eli Lilly, TAP Pharmaceuticals, Sun Microsystems, Tyco Healthcare, Johns Manville, and many more. He\u2019s a regular convention speaker, magazine contributor, and nonprofit board member. His recent book, which is the one I\u2019ve already read, was the Making Money is Killing Your Business<\/em>. It was named the number one business book of the year by the National Federation of Independent Businesses, the largest business owner association in America.<\/p>\n That was a couple years ago, right?<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, 2010, actually.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay, yeah.<\/p>\n Chuck: \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 They named it in 2011 for 2010.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay. And then you\u2019ve recently spoken in Kenya, the Congo, Ireland, New Zealand, and across the U.S. 100-plus times a year. He\u2019s in the Harvard<\/em> Business<\/em> Journal<\/em>, Entrepreneur<\/em> magazine, CNNMoney.com, NewYorkTimes.com, and recently cited in Dr. Stephen Covey\u2019s book, The 3rd Alternative<\/em>. I know you have your new book coming out, which I think that\u2019s what most of our conversation is going to be about tonight, right Chuck?<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Why Employees Are Always a Bad Idea<\/em>. This is, Linda Miles just joined us, and she just thought that what you had to say was really impressive and I agree. When we talked last night, I thought, \u201cOh, I think this is really something we need to hear.\u201d So you want to start us off by telling us a little bit about that title, and what you mean by that? [Laughs]<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It does take some explanation, why employees are a bad idea. They\u2019re always a bad idea. Not just some of the time, but all of the time.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It\u2019s the \u201calways,\u201d yeah.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 The reason for that simply is that the way that we think of employees today. The whole concept of the modern employee was invented really starting in 1901 with a paper by a guy named Frederick Taylor, called \u201cScientific Management.\u201d He started this whole thing in 1901 with two assumptions. He\u2019s the first known consultant in the world, started about the late 1880s. He worked in the factory systems and he based his concept of the modern employee on two really goofy assumptions.<\/p>\n Before I tell you the assumptions, I want to tell you why it\u2019s important. We know this because most of you know who Peter Drucker is, he\u2019s one of the top management consultants ever, and a few other people like him feel the same way. Drucker says that Frederick Taylor is more important to the 20th<\/sup> century than Freud, Marx, and Darwin. That he had as much impact on our culture as those three guys and more than perhaps even some of them.<\/p>\n So this guy is really meaningful to us. Everything we talk about in the way of management today hearkens back to this guy\u2019s fundamental assumptions about business. Everything we do today\u2014unfortunately most of our business practices were really developed in the factory system for the factory system. We\u2019re still hauling them around as if we\u2019re making wheelbarrows.<\/p>\n His two assumptions were this: Number one, employees are stupid. He actually says this, \u201cThe employee, the average employee is so stupid that he more resembles the ox than any other type.\u201d So that\u2019s assumption number one.<\/p>\n The second assumption is that employees are lazy. He called it \u201csoldiering.\u201d The average employee will do only so much work that they have to do in order to not get fired. Those are the fundamental assumptions on which the modern employee system was built. If you believe as he did that people are fundamentally stupid and lazy, that you have to solve that problem.<\/p>\n So, how do you solve that problem? Well, you find a few smart and motivated people to manage the stupid and lazy ones and make them productive. That\u2019s the birth of our modern management system. We need a few smart and motivated people to make the stupid and lazy ones productive.<\/p>\n It\u2019s fascinating to me that for thousands of years, people have managed to be smart and motivated on their farms and their shops. They managed to do this but as soon as they became employees in the factory system, they couldn\u2019t figure out what time to get there, what time recess was, what time to go to lunch. Any of that stuff. They became four-year-olds again.<\/p>\n So that\u2019s the foundation of this whole thing. We have to get away from that because it\u2019s really a very short time period. It\u2019s about 110 years that we\u2019ve had this model around. We\u2019ve proven over and over again that it\u2019s a bad idea. We can go into that, why the system doesn\u2019t work. But that\u2019s where it comes from. Managers are smart and motivated, employees are stupid and lazy.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Chuck, a part of me\u2014we talked a little bit about this when we had our preparation call\u2014but part of me is like, \u201cI don\u2019t believe that.\u201d But I do think there\u2019s probably some really subtle behaviors and subconscious things that are probably running through the whole system that we\u2019re not even aware of. Is that kind of what you\u2019re saying?<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 The system is actually designed to make people stupid and lazy, even though you know they\u2019re not. Managers are the ones who make decisions. Managers are the ones who figure out the systems and the processes, and then they tell people what they should do. That by itself makes me stupid and lazy.<\/p>\n Because I don\u2019t need to figure out what to do, I don\u2019t need to figure out what my productivity should be, or how to be productive, or what the processes and systems\u2014you\u2019re going to lay that all out for me. All I have to do is come in and be an extension of a machine. Whether it\u2019s a service machine or a physical machine, the whole thing is all set up, and I just get shoehorned into it. I\u2019m now just an extension of the whole machine. My job is to be productive at that level, whatever you designed for me.<\/p>\n The problem with that is that people aren\u2019t stupid and lazy. We know that, but we don\u2019t give them the opportunity to perform at a level where they can actually decide that they\u2019re not stupid and lazy. I just have countless stories of business owners we\u2019ve helped who came from that background. Where they never believed their people were stupid and lazy, yet they made all the decisions.<\/p>\n I\u2019ll give you just one real quick example. One business owner we were working with. The light went on for him, he said, \u201cBoy, we\u2019re going to create a stakeholder environment. I\u2019m going back to my office and I\u2019m going to spend three days figuring out what it would mean to be stakeholders. I\u2019m going to lay this whole thing out and then we\u2019re going to have a meeting and I\u2019m going to tell my people how they\u2019re going to become stakeholders.\u201d<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 [Laughs] That\u2019s funny.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So we hear the absurdity of that. But he didn\u2019t. I hear it now but I don\u2019t think I would have heard it through five or six businesses. I didn\u2019t have this figured out.<\/p>\n But I said, \u201cHow about this? How about if you go to them and say, \u2018I now believe you are adults. I used to think you were children and needed to be led. I now believe you\u2019re adults at work. Not just at home. So we\u2019re going to figure out together. I\u2019d like you to tell me what it means to be a stakeholder. How about if you come up with the systems, the processes, the results. We\u2019re going to change this whole environment. I\u2019m going to stop treating you like a child. That means you\u2019re going to have to now turn in from a time-based system to a result-based system. You guys figure this out and let\u2019s work together to do it.\u2019 And watch what happens.\u201d<\/p>\n Invariably, the employees all of sudden are not stupid and lazy, they\u2019re incredibly smart and incredibly motivated and they come up with better answers than we would have if we had designed even the stakeholder system for them.<\/p>\n One owner we worked with over the last year, she has eight people that work with her. A year ago, Brenda was mother hen. She lived in what we called a parent culture. \u201cMy door is always open to solve all your problems for you. Just bring them to me and I\u2019ll make everything go away.\u201d It was codependent, she couldn\u2019t spend ten minutes out of the office before the thing started falling apart.<\/p>\n She just got back, she was supposed to be away for four weeks. She stayed away for five, and when she got back, they had hired someone. This is a year later, about nine, ten months later. They\u2019d hired someone, they\u2019d taken over all of her processes, and she would come into the office and start to do things she used to do and people would run over to her and say, \u201cWhat are you doing? That\u2019s my job. Go away.\u201d And she now, she\u2019s taking every Friday off now going forward. She\u2019s going to get the last week of every month off and next summer she\u2019s going to take another five weeks.<\/p>\n She said, what it\u2019s done for her is it\u2019s taken her to a level where she can now think about, \u201cHow do I grow this as a business?\u201d She\u2019s thinking strategically, she\u2019s thinking about vision, she\u2019s leading, and that\u2019s the real effect for us as business owners is, we need to stop managing and start leading.<\/p>\n It\u2019s not that we can\u2019t manage stuff. But we manage stuff when we lead people. That\u2019s a whole different thing. In the industrial age, people were just an extension of stuff. So we managed both stuff and people. That\u2019s a whole other conversation but we can get into a little of that today. That\u2019s sort of the hope in this for us, is that everybody can do this. Everybody can change from a manager to a leader. But the light has to go on, we have to believe first that there are people in our business that are smart and motivated.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay. I definitely want to get into hiring these people and how do we lead these people. What are the\u2014I don\u2019t know if you have any protocol or steps or suggestions for turning your business into a stakeholder environment. But my thought was, when you were talking about the mother hen lady, and you said she was out for five weeks. I told you this last night. I don\u2019t know if that would work for dentists, because how do we be out of our office for five weeks? Anyway, I just thought I would throw that out there for you.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Let\u2019s jump right in that one, because I get that question every time, and rightly so. But the irony is, it doesn\u2019t matter what industry I\u2019m talking to, I get that question or that comment. \u201cWell, I understand that that would work for fill-in-the-blank people, but our industry is unique. Or my business within that industry is unique. So that won\u2019t work for me.\u201d<\/p>\n That happens with just about everybody we\u2019ve worked with. So here\u2019s some people we\u2019ve worked with: dog walkers, law firms, contractors, service companies, call centers, printers, hardcore manufacturers of washing machines and meat slicers, insurance agencies, even bankers.<\/p>\n In all those cases, and by the way, I did not work with this person personally, I found him, he’s been doing this, he\u2019s a dentist. He\u2019s been doing this for 35 years. He grew his own practice to the point where he could be away not only for weeks and months, but he got to where he didn\u2019t have to go in period, end of story. He grew a number of practices and didn\u2019t have to do it. He eventually sold them off.<\/p>\n The point of that is, that I can\u2019t think of a single industry or a single vocation where we couldn\u2019t do this. The problem isn\u2019t the industry; the problem is in our heads. I\u2019m pretty sure if you saw the movies, what\u2019s the movies with Mini-Me, Austin<\/em> Powers<\/em>?<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, Austin Powers. I love those movies. [Laughs]<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We all think we\u2019re Dr. Evil. [Laughs] And our employees are all Mini-Me.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay.<\/p>\n Chuck: \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Or they\u2019re Number One or they\u2019re Number Two. He just didn\u2019t treat those people like they were equals. They were Number One, Number Two, and those mean different things in that movie, and then there were Mini-Me. At best, we\u2019re looking for Mini-Me. We hope to find Mini-Me. Why in God\u2019s name would we look for Mini-Me? The guy could barely talk. He was pretty much useless. All he did was mimic the boss. And that\u2019s who we look for. I would suggest that we look for Maxi-Me. If we believe there are people out there who are better than us, we will find them. If we believe there are people out there\u2014if there aren\u2019t people out there who are better than us, we\u2019ll find all the people who are Mini-Mes.<\/p>\n I say this all the time, you get what you intend, not what you hope for. We all hope for Maxi-Me, but we intend to find Mini-Me. We go looking for him. Well, I know this guy\u2019s not going to be good enough, but we\u2019ll do what we can and off we go. I call it the thousand and one principle, Allison.<\/p>\n If we could sit here, and it might be fun, actually, entertaining, for ten minutes. Let\u2019s see how many reasons we could come up with why this wouldn\u2019t work in the dental industry. In ten minutes, we could come up with at least 50 and if we had three or four hours we could come up with 1,000. The fact is, the better question is, how many reasons do you need, or how many ways do you need to make this work? You only need one.<\/p>\n So we could focus on 1,000 ways that this wouldn\u2019t work, and I would guarantee there\u2019s probably not more than ten or twenty that it could work for a dentist. And maybe not more than four to six. How many do you need? You only need one. So let\u2019s figure out what one way this will work. And we can go that direction. But if we sit around thinking about all the ways it won\u2019t, we will find them.<\/p>\n Again, I can\u2019t find an industry or a job where we haven\u2019t been able to find someone who could do this if they believe there were other people out there who are smart and motivated. Again, I found Lee Thomas, myself, he\u2019s now out consulting other people. He doesn\u2019t even consult dentists. He just goes all over. He built seven or eight other businesses after he sold his dental practices for a few million. Then went out and helped other people do this. And he\u2019s in his 70s. And he\u2019s just mucking around, having a blast. He just naturally fell into this.<\/p>\n Actually, not naturally. I think this is pertinent for us and especially for you as dentists. 45 or 50 years ago, got his acceptance to dental school, went out and mowed his lawn that day, reached under his mower and almost cut one of his index fingers in half. He saw his entire career flash before his eyes. They managed to sew the thing back on, he was fine. But he said, \u201cFrom that day forward, I vowed to build a practice that would not be dependent on me.\u201d<\/p>\n Sometimes you get it before you even go to dental school. Sometimes you get it when you\u2019re 58. It doesn\u2019t matter when you finally figure out there\u2019s got to be a way to do this. Sure enough, because he intended to build practices that weren\u2019t dependent on him, what a surprise, he did.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah. I think that\u2019s the thing, though, Chuck. I\u2019m just now in that transition point in my life where I\u2019m kind of getting that, right. But you said something yesterday about us being craftsmen. There\u2019s some attachment to\u2014I don\u2019t know, I\u2019m special, I want to be hands-on, I\u2019m the only one who can do this. There\u2019s a whole letting go of that, and I don\u2019t know. There\u2019s a whole trust piece. There\u2019s a lot in here.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, the craftsman is the violin maker, the heart surgeon, the lawyer. When you start your business with this sentence, \u201cWouldn\u2019t it be great if I could make money doing fill-in-the-blank? If I could just do what I love, wouldn\u2019t that be great?\u201d That\u2019s a craftsman.<\/p>\n The good news about that is, you\u2019re doing something that you love. The bad news about that is, you\u2019re doing something you love. So you\u2019re going to do it, sometimes you\u2019re going to give it away for free, but a lot of times you\u2019re going to be so married to it, that it begins to destroy your life. People say this all the time, you\u2019ve heard it. \u201cIf you do something you love, you\u2019ll never work a day in your life.\u201d Actually, if you don\u2019t do it right, you\u2019ll be a slave to your business. If you do something you love, you\u2019ll be a slave to your business.<\/p>\n Think about some of these guys who are doing stuff that you know they don\u2019t love. They\u2019re just natural entrepreneurs looking for a hole in the market, and they say, \u201cHey, look, there\u2019s brake drums. Man, I can make brake drums.\u201d They don\u2019t have any affinity for brake drums, and they make a bazillion dollars and have a great life. Because they\u2019re not married to that thing.<\/p>\n So it\u2019s actually harder for us as craftsmen to get to the point where we sort of separate ourselves from it enough to be able to build a business around it. Now, the other objection I get all the time is, \u201cWell, but I don\u2019t want to build a business. I want to be a dentist.\u201d I got this from the dog walker, actually. \u201cI don\u2019t want to build a dog walking business. I want to be a dog walker.\u201d<\/p>\n So I went on the internet, and I found a business that had went from zero to $10 million in two years walking dogs. She said, \u201cI don\u2019t want that business because I want to walk dogs.\u201d I said, \u201cAre you crazy? If you build a business that\u2019s worth $10 million you can walk dogs any time you want.\u201d<\/p>\n Isn\u2019t that funny? But it\u2019s the difference between having to be a dentist and choosing to be a dentist. What are those things that you love to do? Those kinds of procedures and those kinds of patients, and whatever it is, wouldn\u2019t it be great if you could choose to just do that? So if you don\u2019t want to run the business, get somebody else to wear the tie. But put yourself in a position where you can choose.<\/p>\n Freedom is the ability to choose what to do with my time and my money. Most of us can choose what to do with our money, but we haven\u2019t found freedom with our time yet. Get some freedom and then if you want to choose to be a craftsman, that\u2019s wonderful. That\u2019s what I\u2019m doing. I don\u2019t have to do this stuff. I choose to do it because I\u2019m doing just the things I love to do. That\u2019s where the craftsman should get motivated to build a business.<\/p>\n If you build a business around your dental practice, you can actually do the fun stuff.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay. Now I want you to talk about how we do that. Then, we\u2019re supposed to be talking about stakeholders, how to do\u2026 [Laughs] You tell me where we go from here, because now I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, okay.\u201d So build a business, how do we tie that in with the stakeholder conversation? And I\u2019ll just remind you guys that if you have any questions for Chuck, *2.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Don\u2019t hold them\u2026<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, don\u2019t hold them. He said he wants it to be interactive if you guys have questions, please ask. Especially if you have a direction you want to go. Because I\u2019m here for you guys and so is he.<\/p>\n Oh, Lisa asked\u2014oh, we\u2019ve got a couple. Okay, Lisa I\u2019m going to get you first and then Linda I\u2019ll come to you, okay? All right. Lisa, you\u2019re on.<\/p>\n Lisa: \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Great, thank you. Love the conversation, and I do want to hear more about the stakeholder and how to empower our team members to do that. I am in such agreement and I find myself really already in the belief of what you\u2019re talking about. Building the business is what gives us the freedom to be able to do what we love.<\/p>\n I guess when I haven\u2019t built the business yet, and I\u2019m kind of sort of doing what I love-ish. Help me to figure out how to balance\u2026 I guess I feel like I have to put aside what I love to build the business, and then I can go back to what I love. Then I\u2019m afraid I\u2019ll get trapped into the business. I guess I want to know how to move forward, doing what I love, build the business, kind of check that off the list and continue to do what I love.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right. The short answer is that, as you\u2019re doing all this, hire Allison and Linda and Vanessa and those kinds of people. Outside eyes will keep you from getting trapped in the process if you do that. You don\u2019t necessarily have to stop being a dentist in order to build a business. But you might have to do both. In my book I call it dual tracking.<\/p>\n Figure out how, you have to make money this month to pay the mortgage, and then you have to figure out how to build a business for six months or a year from now where the business will pay the mortgage. There\u2019s a bit of anxiety or angst or work involved in doing that. It doesn\u2019t just happen. But if you had to stop doing the thing you loved for a year, or six months, so that you could do it the rest of your life, would that be an okay tradeoff? I can answer that for you: Duh.<\/p>\n These two lawyers we just worked with, they have 50 employees, now they\u2019re stakeholders. These guys had never gotten more than one to two weeks a year off, and those one to two weeks were always \u201ccrackberry\u201d vacations. Where they took their phones, their crackberries, with them and ran their businesses off their crackberries while their families had fun.<\/p>\n Never more than one to two weeks in 18 years. One of the principals just got back from his first four-week break. First time he\u2019d done this. He said the biggest realization he had, he said, \u201cI\u2019m 49, and I\u2019ve never been away from business. In fact, I don\u2019t even remember taking a month off in college. I\u2019m not sure I\u2019ve ever taken a month off in my life.\u201d<\/p>\n He said, \u201cIt scared me to death, because I sat there on a beach in Newport Beach, California. We rented a house for 30 days and I thought, \u2018I could have been 80 years old and never done this.\u2019 Now I can do it the rest of my life.\u201d<\/p>\n He didn\u2019t have to, but if you had to take a year off actually doing the thing you loved in order to build the business, would it be a good tradeoff to be able to do that kind of thing the rest of your life? It\u2019s all about where we want to end up. Then you get people like the people I just mentioned to hold you to that and t to keep you going.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Are you there, Lisa?<\/p>\n Lisa:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes. Thank you. Great answer.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We can give you the mechanics behind that. You have to have stakeholders. It\u2019s first of all, your mindset. So for you to say I\u2019m already getting this, I can see it. The belief systems that we have about where we\u2019re supposed to go is everything. Read the book Shift<\/em> about this 406-pound guy who became 150 pounds. He said, \u201cIt took two things. Number one, I decided to.\u201d Number two was the important one. He said, \u201cFrom that point on, when I decided to, I saw myself from that point on as a 150-pound man. I made every decision in my life based on what would a 150-pound man do.<\/p>\n And he said\u2014he was a big marketing guru\u2014he said, \u201cI even went out and fired some giant corporations because they were somehow the client of a 406-pound man. They didn\u2019t fit. If I was 150 pounds, I wouldn\u2019t have\u2026\u201d He went out and fired clients. You\u2019ve got the right start is, what does this look like when I get there and do I believe I can get there? The rest of it is the mechanics of getting there. You can be easily guided along the way.<\/p>\n It took these two lawyers, these guys were industrial-age, these guys were nuts. They were classic control freaks. They would go around and they would pound on all 49 of the other people every day. \u201cGet your work done, do this, yadda yadda.\u201d And now they don\u2019t go to anybody\u2019s office. They leave them alone. People are adults. But it was because their mindset changed. So that\u2019s number one, good for you.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Thanks, Lisa. Hi, Linda.<\/p>\n Linda:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Hi there. I\u2019m so enjoying this. I had the pleasure of having breakfast with Chuck at the Speaking Consulting Network. I knew immediately we were somehow related even though we\u2019ve never met. There are so many ways that dentists can do this. My goal for every dentist client that I\u2019ve ever worked with, when they reach the age of 50, they should be working 100 days a year. That is 10 days a month, 10 months out of the year.<\/p>\n By having an associate come in, somebody that\u2019s going to eventually buy the practice, they can work 100 days. So if you want to take 30 days and go to Europe, and it isn\u2019t your month to do so, you work your ten days the first half of the month, leave on the 15th<\/sup>, come back on the 15th<\/sup> and work your ten days.<\/p>\n So the owner gets to work any ten days a month and they get to have freedom, as Chuck is talking about. Work hard to play hard.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well said, love the story, Linda. It\u2019s great to hear your voice.<\/p>\n Linda:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Also, Chuck, there\u2019s something called locum tenens<\/em>. And this is for my clients who fall ill and they have to have a part-time dentist come in. There are so many dentists in every state, licensed, who are, maybe they retired and sold their practice and they\u2019re bored. You can find someone to meet your standards to come in and fill in for either illness or a 30-day vacation. I just think you come back so refreshed if you get away from it.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, that\u2019s what these guys\u2014that\u2019s the other thing that people are saying, when they go away for even two weeks or three weeks. They\u2019re saying, \u201cNow I\u2019m thinking visionary, I\u2019m thinking leader, I\u2019m thinking how I can build the business.\u201d These two lawyers, by the way, have started two new businesses that they\u2019d been thinking about for ten years. They started both of them, one of them is doing a half million dollars a year already in one of the businesses. They\u2019re just side businesses that they put off forever because they couldn\u2019t get out of the tactical part to think about how do I push my business forward?<\/p>\n So it\u2019s a catch-22. The less you do of it, the less you can, the more you do of it, the more strategic you\u2019ll get, the more you\u2019ll be able to get the freedom you need.<\/p>\n Linda:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s for sure.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Thank you, Linda. Do you have any more\u2026?<\/p>\n Linda:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I just, I\u2019m enjoying it. Thank you so much.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Thanks so much for being on. Okay, Vanessa, I\u2019m going to unmute you.<\/p>\n Vanessa:\u00a0\u00a0 Thank you, Allison, and just a quick question. Chuck, you mentioned the book Shift<\/em>, do you happen to remember the author?<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Peter Arnell, I believe is the guy\u2019s name. Peter Arnell.<\/p>\n Vanessa:\u00a0\u00a0 Thank you very much.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, I wrote that down too, Vanessa. I\u2019m going to get that. You recommend the whole book, Chuck? You like it?<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think the book wasn\u2019t long enough. I think his editor told him it needed to be longer, so he did a lot of stuff up front to tell you how great he is as a marketer. It just doesn\u2019t seem to fit in the book. When you finally get to the part about \u201chow I lost weight,\u201d that\u2019s what the book\u2019s all about. How he shifted from being 406 to being 150 and he stayed there. That to me was the whole book. You can jump right to that if you want.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay, thank you. Thanks for that question, Vanessa.<\/p>\n Vanessa:\u00a0\u00a0 Thank you.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Allison, it might be good just to talk real quick about how to stop managing, start leading, and then how to find what is a stakeholder and how to find them. We could spend some time on those things.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019d be great. Lisa, did you have another question real quick?<\/p>\n Lisa:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Just a quick follow-up question. My question is, is it always necessary or is it just one of many options when you want to build a business, and go into something different, to replace yourself? For example, Allison is a dentist. Does she have to have an associate or someone come in and replace herself just so that she can be free from the patients?<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It really depends on the person. Obviously if she wants to keep patients in chairs for eight hours a day, four days a week or whatever it is, and she\u2019s not going to be there the whole time, then she has to have an associate. Or she can figure out another way to do it.<\/p>\n But she could decide that, one of the methods we talk about is what we call the Picasso method. If you\u2019re so darn good and in such high demand in a certain type of specialty, you can charge through the nose and work half as much, or a quarter as much. Picasso went to a restaurant one time, they said \u201cWe want you to paint our wall.\u201d He said, \u201cOkay, it\u2019ll be $100,000.\u201d I could say $500,000 or one million today. And he said, \u201cPaint the wall white and leave me a small paintbrush with a small paint can of paint.\u201d He came back next week, ate lunch, took the black can of paint, wrote his name Picasso on the wall and left. And took $100,000.<\/p>\n If you work like that, you don\u2019t have to work very often. Another way that you could do this. There\u2019s ten or fifteen ways that she could do it and it doesn\u2019t always mean that you have to hire another dentist. It could mean that you know some things or you\u2019ve built some practice stuff that you can put out on the web. You can do some white papers. You could do speaking engagements, consultants, there\u2019s a lot of other things you could do to fill in for that at a higher pay level.<\/p>\n Lisa:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay. I\u2019m good. Okay, thank you.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Thank you, Lisa. [Laughs] I can hear your kids or something in the background. Okay, Chuck, I think that\u2019s a good idea to talk about how to create the stakeholders and go back into that. That would be great. Hiring and keeping them.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 First of all, I think only about 20 percent or less, probably 20 percent of people are incurably employees. Those are people who are synonymous with children. A child and an employee are pretty much interchangeable. They just want to be told what to do. \u201cTell me when to show up, when to leave, what to do while I\u2019m here, and how to do it.\u201d That\u2019s what we want to do with children. Less than 20 percent are incurably that.<\/p>\n Then there\u2019s another 20 percent who, no matter what we do, they\u2019re going to be stakeholders. We can\u2019t hold them down. They\u2019re going to question what we\u2019re doing. They\u2019re going to be motivated. They\u2019re going to try and take over things when they\u2014they\u2019re those annoying people who get in our way constantly asking, \u201cWhy?\u201d Or they\u2019re those people we think we\u2019re really lucky to have, who seem to be the highly proactive.<\/p>\n Then there\u2019s the middle, the 60 percent in the middle. Most of them are acting like employees right now. And the reason is because we built systems that treat them like that. \u201cIn order to keep my job, if you want me to be stupid and lazy, I\u2019ll be stupid and lazy.\u201d But the fact is, if we build a system where we free them to be smart and motivated, you\u2019ll be surprised the majority of your people will step up to that and say, \u201cYeah, I got ideas. I can actually help out here. I can make this go.\u201d<\/p>\n So 80 percent of people can be stakeholders or more, and they should be. The way we get them there, first of all, is to change the way we manage people. That\u2019s a mindset. Do I believe that I\u2019ve got Maxi-Me or Mini-Me? I\u2019m going to find out. I\u2019m going to set them both loose, turn them into adults, ask them to be self-managed and self-motivated. Very quickly you will find out who you have.<\/p>\n A stakeholder, number one, stakeholders need ownership. You have to figure out, how do I give my people ownership of first their task, then their processes, then their job, then the systems, then maybe the office. How do I give them ownership of decision-making and the power of being able to actually make decisions?<\/p>\n Here\u2019s a great principle for us: Decisions should be made at the level at which they have to be lived with. So if the office manager has to live with this decision 70 percent of the time, and you only have to live with it 30 percent of the time, if there\u2019s any possible way to give them 70 or 100 percent of the decision to make, let them do it. They will be better at making that decision than you are because they\u2019re going to have to live with it.<\/p>\n There\u2019s always the caveat that you don\u2019t let people make decisions that are going to irreparably damage the practice. That\u2019s what we call below-the-waterline decisions. Don\u2019t let them put a hole in the boat. But other than that, if they\u2019re going to do things that you know are stupid, let them do it because you did stupid things too and that\u2019s how we learn and we become better. And the next time you won\u2019t have to manage them. That\u2019s principle number one, figure out how to help them become owners and let decisions be made at the level at which they\u2019re going to have to be lived with. That\u2019s difficult for us to do, but we can get there.<\/p>\n Second thing we have to do is give them the ability to make meaning at work. To be contributors. Employees go to work to make money. Then they go home and go bowling. Stakeholders come to work and say, \u201cI\u2019d love to add value here. I want to go home today and say, \u2018This was fun, this was meaningful, I made an impact, I changed a little bit of somebody\u2019s life. Or I really had fun putting this process together. I\u2019m important here.\u2019\u201d So we need to put people in a position where they want to do that. Stakeholders want to create significance. They want to make meaning, not just money.<\/p>\n They want to build relationships. Money is pretty much at the bottom of the totem pole for a stakeholder. We brought somebody in who was making over $100,000 a year at $39,000 a year, because we were going to give her an environment where she could make money\u2014or make meaning\u2014and over the next couple years get back to $100,000. That\u2019s how important it is for stakeholders to actually be in a position where they can do this.<\/p>\n Figure out how to do what I call distributive leadership. All the decisions are coming at you. Think of it like you\u2019re holding a mirror and somebody\u2019s shooting laser beams at you. Your job is to deflect those laser beams at other people. Make as few decisions as possible. The purpose of a leader, the best leaders figure out how to make very few decisions. We\u2019re so used to making them all because it\u2019s my practice, it\u2019s my money, etcetera, but you\u2019d be surprised how much they\u2019d want to take ownership. So those are a few practical examples of how to do this.<\/p>\n Then very quickly, a process for turning someone from an employee into a stakeholder. When you\u2019re having conversations with people, you have to be asking yourself, which conversation am I having? There\u2019s basically three conversations you can have with someone when it comes to problems.<\/p>\n Conversation number one is, I found out the problem and I\u2019m having to create the solution. That\u2019s the lowest level of management. That\u2019s supervisory management. You do not want to be doing that. So if you\u2019re having a conversation with someone because you found out the problem and you found out the solution, you have to figure out how do I move this person to the next level. Teach them how to find out the problems. Just do that first.<\/p>\n Then you get to the second level, where they\u2019re now bringing you the problems but you still have to come up with the solutions. Obviously, you\u2019re asking yourself, which conversation am I having? You figure out it\u2019s that conversation. Now you train them how to come up with the solutions. Then you get into the point where they\u2019re bringing you two or three solutions to pick from.<\/p>\n Gradually you figure out how to help them come up with the solutions. The ultimate place you want to be as a leader is, they found the problem, they found the solution, and they sent me a report. That\u2019s when you know you\u2019ve got real, true, honest-to-goodness stakeholders because they\u2019ve arrived at, \u201cI know what problems are and I know how to solve them. I\u2019m just going to tell Allison, here\u2019s what I did.\u201d That\u2019s a process. That can take a month to seven or eight or nine months of freeing someone from the background of \u201cYou don\u2019t make decisions.\u201d That is a very concrete thing that people could follow to help people turn into stakeholders.<\/p>\n Along the way you will find people who will simply not move to the next level. You have got to let them move on. You have to help them find another position where they can be employees somewhere else. Because the stakeholders in your office\u2014nothing grinds the gear of a stakeholder more than having to pull the weight for somebody else who doesn\u2019t want to step up.<\/p>\n Go through that process and if people stall and they refuse to go any farther, then that\u2019ll be your cue to move them along. You will find that very few people stall out.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Wow. That was great. I was thinking, when you were saying something, and I was thinking, \u201cOh my gosh.\u201d So you just train them, when they come and they say, I guess, when you go to them with the problem and the solution. Then what do you say to them? The next time you see a problem, or that time, you say, okay, how do you do that? How do you move them?<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You say, \u201cLet me help you figure out how to identify problems. So here\u2019s a problem I identified. Here\u2019s how I identified this was a problem. I saw this, I looked at that, or here\u2019s our metrics.\u201d Sometimes it\u2019s simply\u2014you don\u2019t really have a good view of the metrics. Or you don\u2019t understand the metrics, or you don\u2019t understand the process. Or you don\u2019t understand\u2026 So, \u201cLet me help you understand better what it\u2019s supposed to look like when it\u2019s working.\u201d That\u2019s number one. \u201cDo you understand that?\u201d We call it process mapping, or freedom mapping.<\/p>\n Figure out how to write the process down so that they know what the process is supposed to look like and what the result, what a happy client looks like or whatever it is. That\u2019s the first thing, is to make sure they\u2019re trained enough to know what it\u2019s supposed to look like. Usually what happens, if they don\u2019t know what the problem is, that\u2019s a cue that they probably don\u2019t know what the right thing is, either. That\u2019s how you know what the wrong thing is, you look at the right thing and say, \u201cWell, this one\u2019s right, that\u2019s wrong.\u201d<\/p>\n Train them on the right thing first and then sit with them. This is painful. Sit with them and identify the problem. You see it, you walk by it, you give them three minutes or an hour or two days, or however long you can take it before it becomes a below-the-waterline thing. Then you sit with them and say, \u201cOkay, I saw something here. Let\u2019s walk through this together. Do you see anything in this position or this process or in the way you treated that\u2014what do you see here? Tell me what you see.<\/p>\n Then I\u2019ll tell you what I see and here\u2019s how I saw that and here\u2019s how I\u2026\u201d You train them to find it. Then you say to them, \u201cOkay, how many of these conversations do you think we need to have in order for you to be able to begin to identify these kinds of problems? Two? Three?\u201d Let them pick. If they say 27, that\u2019s a problem. But pick something, and this becomes a metric. \u201cOkay, so we\u2019re going to give this three more times.\u201d Or two more times I\u2019m going to have to come to you and identify these problems. By then, you\u2019re going to get this.<\/p>\n And then, you move to the next level. \u201cHow many times am I going to have to train you how to find the solution on this? What do you think?\u201d Let\u2019s go to three more times. \u201cOkay, so over the next month or two months, you\u2019re going to get three more shots with me and I\u2019m going to train you how to do this. Then if it gets to where it\u2019s the fourth or the fifth time I\u2019m doing this, that\u2019s a problem.\u201d<\/p>\n So we become adults and they begin to see that they have to figure this stuff out. And there might be mitigating reasons why you have to go to the fourth or fifth time. But you begin to put metrics on it as adults. \u201cI\u2019m going to help you grow up.\u201d It\u2019s the same thing we do with any kid. \u201cWhen you\u2019re 13, you get x, when you\u2019re 16 you get x,\u201d and so we\u2019re doing the same thing. \u201cHow many more times do you think we have to do this?\u201d<\/p>\n We\u2019ve done this with people where they got all the way to the end of it, and they just couldn\u2019t get it. We said, \u201cOkay, you get two more shots. If I have to come to you and give you the solution two more times, the third time I come to you, there\u2019s not going to be a solution. The solution is going to be we need to help you find another place. We have failed you. We have you in the wrong position,\u201d and it\u2019s always that.<\/p>\n Allison, it\u2019s almost never that they failed us. We put them in the wrong position. I always take that tact. \u201cWe failed you. We put you in the wrong position. We need to help you find somewhere either in our company or more often than not, somewhere else where you can be successful.\u201d<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Great. Wow, that\u2019s wonderful. When you do the metrics, it\u2019s an agreement, you\u2019ve created an agreement. So then you can hold each other accountable.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 People think this is fuzzy stuff. Well it\u2019s not fuzzy stuff. We\u2019re going to this three more times. We\u2019re going to do this fuzzy stuff three more times. That\u2019s what we agreed to.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah. I love that. So when you\u2019re hiring somebody, if you\u2019re looking for somebody that wants to be that way to begin with. We just hired somebody, are there things we can do starting out? Yeah, that would be great.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We have a workshop. We can\u2019t decide which to call it because every time we call it either one we get lots of people. One is called \u201cHow to Hire People You\u2019ll Never Have to Manage,\u201d and that one, when we call it that we get a lot of people. Then we call it sometimes, \u201cHow to Get Employees to Quit Before You Hire Them.\u201d That one gets a lot of traction. It\u2019s the same workshop.<\/p>\n But we really do want to get employees to quit before you hire them. It\u2019s the best time to do it. There\u2019s no, it\u2019s very clean. I quit before you hire me. What we\u2019re doing here is we\u2019re sifting for stakeholders. We\u2019re creating a new interview process that\u2019s just for stakeholders.<\/p>\n The way we interview people is broken because it basically once again was built in the factory system with the assumption that people are at least a little bit less smart than me and a little bit less motivated than me. So we put together this goofy system where we look at resumes and we talk to people across a desk. There are so few jobs where that actually makes sense, it\u2019s not funny. Almost none.<\/p>\n What you do first of all is you figure out what result, what is this person going to be doing in a high-level and maybe at a tactic level, what are the most important three or four or five things I want out of this person in this position. Then you design your interview process around that. We have a different interview process for an outside salesperson, a different interview process for an inside salesperson who would be on the phone all the time. That interview process, you don\u2019t meet this person until the day before you hire them. Because why would you? They\u2019re an inside salesperson, they\u2019re going to be on the phone. That\u2019s the job you want. So you design a process and have them on the phone with you the whole time.<\/p>\n We have one for an administrative assistant. So that one is entirely different. We have them doing all sorts of things and the process, it\u2019s a five or six or seven step process depending on which one we\u2019re hiring for. The first thing you do is you hire for culture. Never hire for skills. Never ever ever never hire for skills first. You can do it later on in the process.<\/p>\n That\u2019s one of the reasons resumes are bad. We never look at resumes until way down the process. Because a resume is only going to tell you two things: What are my skills, and what are my experience? It will not tell you what their culture is, it will not tell you what their belief systems are. How they will get along with you as human beings, or other people. And in fact, most resumes are more like obituaries. You never put the bad stuff in your obituary. And usually you embellish the good stuff.<\/p>\n You just don\u2019t want to look at them to begin with. So what we do is we design\u2014if you don\u2019t get anything else from this call, this is the best thing we ever did. We designed a five to eight page ad for people. It\u2019s excruciatingly long and 2\/3 to 3\/4 of it is our culture. Here\u2019s what we believe. Here\u2019s our principles. Here\u2019s our values. Here\u2019s how we treat each other. Here\u2019s our website. Go look at that.<\/p>\n We tell them everything about our company. Buried in there we also say, here\u2019s what we expect from this position. Then buried in the middle of it, if we\u2019re looking for a detail person especially, we\u2019ll bury it in the middle, say, \u201cPlease do not send your resume. Just answer these seven questions.\u201d<\/p>\n And the seven questions are culture questions. It\u2019s things like: How do you respond to this ad? What does this ad do for you? How would you fit into an organization like this? Where would you see, what kind of help would you need\u2026 just things to get them started thinking in terms of value and culture. If they respond and send us their resume, we just delete it.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 They didn\u2019t listen. They didn\u2019t read. They\u2019re obviously not interested enough to read the whole thing and to listen.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 For an outside salesperson, we\u2019ll put it right up front because we don\u2019t expect someone who\u2019s raging detail. We want them highly relational. We\u2019ll put it right up front in the ad in big bold letters, \u201cPlease do not send us your resume.\u201d If they don\u2019t see that, we\u2019ll drop them. Again, it\u2019s designed for that particular thing.<\/p>\n Important part of this is, we never take referrals directly. We put everything in an ad, we\u2019ll either put it on Monster. We usually put it just on Craigslist, which everybody told us when we started this process a few years ago, never put an ad out on Craigslist because you\u2019ll get inundated and you\u2019ll lose the pearls amongst the swine.<\/p>\n But the fact is, when you put out a five to eight page ad, even on Craigslist, we put out an ad for what essentially is a high level administrative position, an office manager type. You normally would get two or three hundred responses in two hours. We got maybe a hundred responses in a month. And 30 or 40 of them sent us their resumes so we only had 60 people we had to sift through. We had to put the ad in two or three times to get enough responses.<\/p>\n Here\u2019s why: Employees are looking for a job. They are not looking for work. Reading a five to eight page ad is work. And they won\u2019t do it. They\u2019ll select themselves out right up front. \u201cMan, this place looks nuts. I\u2019m not even going to apply here.\u201d<\/p>\n Because all they\u2019re doing is they\u2019re slinging resumes. They\u2019re going out on Monster and all these others, they find a job posting, they find out who they\u2019re supposed to throw it at, they sling them a resume and they go on to the next one and they sling out 200 resumes in a day. That\u2019s what they\u2019re doing because they\u2019re looking for a job. They\u2019re looking for somebody to pay them money.<\/p>\n We want people who are looking for work. So we make them work right up front, do these seven culture questions. When they do that, we pare it down to 15 or 20 more. Then we give them tasks to do based on what we would ask them to do. If it\u2019s an admin, we\u2019ll give them a Word doc and an Excel doc and a PowerPoint that are all broken, they\u2019re all messed up, we tell them to fix it. 25 percent more will drop out at that level. Three or four steps in, half the people have selected themselves out and you\u2019ve got five or eight or ten stakeholders left.<\/p>\n That\u2019s all you got, because they\u2019re the only ones that will put up with a process this crazy. They\u2019ll actually enjoy it because they want work. They don\u2019t want a job, they want to make meaning. They want work. They want to be significant.<\/p>\n We\u2019ve never had an employee make it to the end of this process. They\u2019re all stakeholders. You get five or ten people at the end of this process and every one of them is employable, they just may not be employable by us. What we do, if people want to refer people to us, we tell them to go to the ad. Send their people, please don\u2019t even tell us who they are, send them right to the Craigslist, to the Monster ad, or whatever. Tell them to apply just like everybody else. If they\u2019re as good as you say they are, they\u2019ll come to the top.<\/p>\n We actually hired a salesperson blind through this first four processes that we got him from Pennsylvania and I found out halfway through the process, I changed this kid\u2019s diapers.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, my goodness.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 When we lived in the northeast, our best friends in the northeast saw this ad on Facebook, gave it to their son. He went blind into the process. And everybody in our business loved whoever this guy was from Pennsylvania. He made it through the process because he\u2019s the right guy.<\/p>\n Now they could have come to us and said, \u201cHey, would you please interview our son?\u201d And now you\u2019re stuck with courtesy interviews and all kinds of stuff for people that wouldn\u2019t make it through the process. So put your referrals into that process. Put out the five to eight page ad and that\u2019ll make 80 percent of the people quit before you even say hello.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I love that.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Isn\u2019t that crazy?<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, but the whole thing that we\u2019re trying to figure out in our interview process is, do we have matching values? If you ask somebody straight up, \u201cDo you believe in this\u2026?\u201d If you tell them what your values are, they\u2019ll say, \u201cOf course that\u2019s what I value.\u201d It\u2019s very hard to figure that out. The way that you\u2019re doing it is, oh my gosh.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You make them figure it out. And same thing with the skills. When you read their resume and it says, \u201cAre you good at Word?\u201d You look at them and say, \u201cAre you good at Word?\u201d Well of course they\u2019re going to say yes. If you give them a Word document that\u2019s all messed up and see how they do.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That is amazing. You\u2019re right.<\/p>\n [Allison and Chuck speaking at the same time]<\/p>\n Chuck: \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Why would you sit across a desk from a boiler tech and ask him if he\u2019s good at fixing boilers? Take him to the basement, intentionally break something and ask him to find it. There\u2019s your interview.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah. Wow. Do you have this stuff all lined out in the book? Do you have examples?<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We\u2019ve got the process lined out in the book but of course we didn\u2019t put all the ads and all that stuff in there. But we actually are putting together a toolkit that people can get from the book. The toolkit\u2019s going to be, I don\u2019t know, 195 bucks but if you bought the book, just email us at [52:06 Inaudible] @Crankset.com and we\u2019ll give you a code and you can buy the toolkit for $20.00. We want it out there, it\u2019s not about necessarily making a bucket load of money out of that. We\u2019ll do just fine.<\/p>\n In the meantime, we can give you the rough drafts. If you guys on this call want to email Allison and say \u201cYeah, I\u2019d like to get.\u201d Here\u2019s the ads, we\u2019ve got ads, we actually have Excel scoring templates that we use for each wave through the process. For the admin, for the operations person, for the salesperson. We\u2019ve only got three or four of these designed right now. But we\u2019re glad to give you the rough copies.<\/p>\n You\u2019ll get it, you\u2019ll be able to use them and go from there. We\u2019ve got plenty of other people who are using what we\u2019ve got to this point who are adapting it to their own environment.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I have to say that the ones, I got your toolkit from the Making Money is Killing Your Business<\/em> and it was, it\u2019s fabulous. Those are great. All the things you need, all the forms, all the steps, everything in that little toolkit.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, I have something similar to that for this new book.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay, all right. So, if you guys want to email me, I think everybody on here you have my email address because you got my email to get this phone number. So you can just\u2026<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We\u2019ll just give that to you so you don\u2019t have to buy it. We\u2019ll just give it to you.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, thanks Chuck. Appreciate it.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You bet.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We are at the top of the half hour, at the end of the call. I cannot believe it. I feel like I just want to know so much more about\u2014It got really exciting at the end. I love the whole thing, but the end, that was like, oh my goodness. That\u2019s the coolest thing. Thank you, Chuck. I\u2019ve never heard anything like that.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, we came up with it in a vacuum. We didn\u2019t look around and say, \u201cWhat should we do?\u201d We just kept searching for things until we hit on something. Sometimes that\u2019s the best way to come with something new is to not look at what everybody else is doing.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think that\u2019s true and not look at what you\u2019ve done in the past.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 We\u2019ve had enough business owners do it over the last three years now that we know what works.<\/p>\n Allison:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Hopefully we won\u2019t be hiring again for a very long time. But if we do, yeah. I\u2019m sure Lisa\u2019s like, over there thinking the same thing, Lisa.<\/p>\n Thank you, Chuck.<\/p>\n Chuck:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 If you have questions later, feel free to email Allison or you can email me at Chuck@Cranksetgroup.com.<\/p>\n Thanks for listening to Practicing with the Masters<\/em> for dentists, with your host, Dr. Allison Watts. For more about how Allison Watts and Transformational Practices can help you create a successful and fulfilling practice and life, visit transformationalpractices.com<\/a>.<\/p>\n <\/div> <\/p>\n <\/p>\n <\/p>\n <\/p>\n <\/p>\n <\/p>\n <\/p>\n <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" On this episode of the Practicing with the Masters podcast, I am honored to invite our guest\u00a0Chuck Blakeman, who’s not only a systems guy and amazing leadership coach, but \u00a0also an incredible businessman. Over the past 25 years, Chuck has launched\u00a07 businesses, 5 of which became incredibly successful. Drawing upon\u00a0his success in business and experiences […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_et_pb_use_builder":"","_et_pb_old_content":"","_et_gb_content_width":"","_cloudinary_featured_overwrite":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[303],"tags":[309,305,304,307],"yoast_head":"\nWhat You’ll Learn From This Episode:<\/h3>\n
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Listen To The Full Interview:<\/h3>\n\n
Featured On The Show:<\/h3>\n
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Full Episode Transcript:<\/h3>\n
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<\/a><\/p>\nDeveloping Stakeholders from Employees with Chuck Blakeman<\/h3>\n
CLICK HERE TO READ THE TRANSCRIPT (10,165 WORDS )<\/span><\/a><\/div>\n
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